This is the first in a series of episodes where I share a real life coaching session! In this episode, I talk with Ruth, a PhD student, who worries that succeeding in academia relies on having connections, rather than the quality of your work. She agreed to be coached for the podcast and we discuss why this bothers her, how it affects her work, and reach some conclusions that will help her move forwards. When you're listening, make sure that you relate it to your own life and think about how you can apply her experience to your own concerns. The session is slightly edited for time but mostly runs like a full session, so it'll also give you an insight into what it's like to be coached and how insightful it can be to listen to other people getting coached. Hope you enjoy!
Vikki: Welcome to the PhD Life Coach podcast. This is episode 23 of series two, and we have our first of my coaching episodes. So some of you who follow me on social media will have seen that I did a shout out for people who were willing to be coached right here on the podcast so that you can all hear somebody getting coached and learn from those experiences.
Vikki: And Ruth is one of the lovely people who got in contact with me to agree to take part in this. So welcome Ruth.
Ruth: Thank you very much. I'm very, very pleased to be here.
Vikki: Thank you so much. So maybe introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about what's going on in your PhD life at the moment.
Ruth: Okay, so, well, as you said, my name is Ruth. I'm a PhD student, in Spain, actually, and I'm doing a bit of research in a mixture of different social issues such as gender and translation, basically, related to literature, to fantasy literature and specifics. So I'm basically trying to track how different gender profiles present in fantasy literature and how that presents a challenge for the translation of the original materials in English into Spanish, because, you know, there's a bit of a trickery with the gender marking in both languages being different.
Ruth: So that's what I'm basically working on at the moment. It's been, it's been a while. I entered the PhD during actually during the pandemic. So some people were baking. I decided this was the way to go for me. Um, yeah, pretty, pretty risky for me to go that way, but not, not regretting it yet. So that's good.
Ruth: And I'm basically, I've done most of the, you know, previous work. And the readings and all the training you have to go to start researching professionally, so to speak, and I'm basically working on my thesis, just, you know, get everything on paper, all the work that I've been doing to try summarize everything into just one book. And that's what I'm at the moment.
Ruth: At the moment, because I'm actually struggling with this myself, uh, is this notion that you, to be someone in academia and to, you know, be part of it and just feel part of it. Sometimes it feels like. The more you work on your own, unless you have someone backing you and backing your work, you just don't feel like you're not going anywhere unless you have the right connections, so to speak. So it's like this fake propaganda of meritocracy of like do everything and just be the best and just invest so much time.
Ruth: And to my experience, I can work myself to the bone. But unless I know certain people that have the right place, or I'm, you know, touched by grace, and I am in the spot, in the perfect spot, at the perfect timing, it is very hard to navigate this kind of murky waters.
Vikki: Amazing. So people listening, what I want you to be doing is thinking about how you feel about the stuff that Ruth said. You thinking these thoughts. Um, as we go through, this isn't reality TV.
Vikki: As we go through, I want everyone listening to be thinking about how would I answer the questions that Vikki asks? Would I say the same things that Ruth? What is that opening up? So that's just for everybody listening to be sort of Yeah, that's your task. That's your task, exactly. Um, and that way, what happens is that instead of just listening to your experience, you get to kind of connect it with your own experience. And so hopefully everybody listening will get something out of this for themselves. Sure. You mentioned some examples. Can you give me an example of where you think people have to have a connection in order to succeed?
Ruth: For example, I realized that if you want to publish, getting published is not easy, as per my experience, and I have been published before, I'm already a published author, but I was so lucky because I knew someone that needed a book chapter very quickly, someone dropped out last minute of a publication and they were in need of someone to just, you know, fill a space and I was around the same area of research, but, you know, if I would have been in that area of research, but I didn't know the person that was actually editing the book, I might not have got the spot because I, you know, I wasn't planning on publishing at that moment, I thought I wasn't ready. I actually got ready because someone came and said, Hey, I have a spot. Do you want to fill it? And that was such a great opportunity for me and I, everything came through, well, you know, publishing is, you know, always delayed and this re redoing and remarking and everything, but at the same time, I can recognize that I was offered a very, you know, scarce possibility because I was at the right moment I was available.
Ruth: And I was known. If I wasn't known, maybe I wouldn't have never been offered that because. I might have, you know, some other people might have been researching on the same issue and they just didn't get that opportunity.
Vikki: I'm going to ask you a question, which might sound a bit strange. Why is this a problem?
Ruth: No, I don't think it is a problem per se. I mean. Or maybe, well, maybe it is for the people that didn't get that spot. Because I was in no rush to get published at that, at that moment. Like, um, it was kind of early, but convenient for me. But maybe someone was in the last year, and that was kind of the last moment they could get something out, approved on time to present their thesis.
Ruth: And they didn't get that. So it was very lucky for me, but maybe someone else could have used a possibility to even like more eagerly because they had less time to do so. And they weren't so I recognize I was very lucky. But for example. I have the same flip side of the coin at the moment, a couple of months afterwards, a publication, well, I worked at a Congress and I presented a communication there and they contacted me afterwards to ask if I wanted to be included through that communication in another book.
Ruth: I said, yes, I sent my elaborated materials and they said, sure, let's go with this. It's been over a year and I have known nothing else from them. I don't know anyone in that institution that I can contact straight away. And the people I've been emailing on and on for months have been ghosting me. So in that situation, if I was in a rush to get that, you know, book out, I'm not because I already have my, my hours completed in that regard, but if I was. Then I would be in such a difficult position because I don't know anyone that I can contact directly being like, could you give me a hand, help me out? Because I don't know their institution straight away. So
Vikki: it's a really interesting comparison, those two situations, isn't it? Because in both of them, the bit that seems to be bothering you is almost a hypothetical situation.
Ruth: I'm very good at hypotheticals, I have to admit. That's kind of my thing.
Vikki: Because in that first one, if I hadn't known them It wouldn't have happened, and that's the bit that's worrying you. In this current one, if I was in a rush to get this published, this would be a perceived problem. I'm interested in this, why these hypotheticals feel like they bother you.
Ruth: I believe that I've seen myself in situations where those things have materialized, where I needed someone to help me out with something, and because I didn't know anyone, I didn't get it like that's, that's been my experience so many times, and I am fully aware of how the world works to some other types of experiences. I know that fairness is not entirely part of the game sometimes, depending on the area that you're working in. And academia seems to be one of those places where it just, it's so tight, like it's such a tight knot, that it sometimes it feels like very, very hard to just find a way to get yourself into the, into, you know, the thing.
Ruth: For me, being someone that tends to do things on their own, I even have trouble remembering that I have to contact my thesis director to ask for directions because I am so used to do things on my own that the notion of, you know, having to rely on someone else because it's how it works. It just feels contrary to the way I do, me doing things.
Ruth: And, I don't know, it kind of presents a mental, I don't know, someone may relate to this. But when you're used to doing things on your own, the fact of needing people to validate your, um, capacity or your, I don't know, ability to deserve a spot. It's tricky. It's not only about your work being good, because your work you can, you can polish, you can work on, on how you write and take another course and, you know, perfect your grammar or read more, more papers on the same issue, you will get the style, you know, um, those things you can, you can improve, you can always improve.
Ruth: But connections are something so liquid and so depending on your personality so many times that you either have a great drive and big charisma and, and you've had the, you know, the enough life experience to get you through those places because I don't know, you're 25, 26, just fresh out of a master's degree or something. You may not have any work experience outside of this because you didn't have the time. Um, And you have to put yourself out there and advocate for yourself and your work, and you may not even have the tools to do so, because you've never had to, and those things are always what seem a bit. you know, challenging mentally, at least for me.
Ruth: And that's, I know it's just hypothetical because that's not even my case. I started working when I was 19, when I was already in uni. So I've been used to being exposed a lot to the real world, but even that I recognize it's not easy. Sorry. So. I'm rumbling, I know. I don't know if I'm making sense.
Vikki: No, it's really interesting. It's really interesting seeing your sort of thought processes go through. I'm wondering, what do you, if anything, do you make it mean about you and your place in academia?
Ruth: Uh, what exactly do you mean that?
Vikki: So you, you have this, this belief that you have be very connected to succeed in academia and that the things, some things you have been connected and you've benefited from that and other things you haven't been connected and you've, um, you know, you've suffered because of that. We can think in a minute about whether those things, to what extent we believe those things are true and stuff.
Vikki: Yeah. And those may be true or not. It's almost by the bye that whether they're true or not. What's interesting to explore is what we make that mean and what the consequences of thinking those thoughts are. Yeah. Almost regardless of whether it's true. Yeah, and so I'm interested when you are thinking you have to be connected to succeed in academia what does that mean for you in academia?
Ruth: Well, it's a bit contradictory because I enjoy academia a lot and I've always enjoyed researching, even in my free time, which is spend time, you know, looking for, for things. And that's, that's why I've always enjoyed, being a translator because being a translator means facing a new topic pretty much every single day.
Ruth: At the same time, uh, I feel like as much as I may enjoy this field, I don't entail a notion of me working in this my entire life. Not because I don't think I would enjoy it. But because I think it probably would be very challenging for me to earn a spot, unless my thesis goes very nicely.
Vikki: I want to relate you back to this notion of having to be connected. Because you're partly saying, you know, maybe I would have a future if I write a really good thesis.
Vikki: And that feels a bit different to what you're saying in terms of being connected.
Ruth: It just, I don't know, I guess this is kind of where the insecurity comes in where you might think that even if you are the best. Unless you know someone that can get you places, um, it's hard for you to make it, as it is in pretty much, I would say, any other field.
Ruth: Um, and I, I have a struggle with, you know, the notion of not earning my position. in a place by myself. So even if I, like, probably that's another thing, even if I would have the connection, I'm not sure how comfortable I would feel using it.
Vikki: Which of those feels like the bigger barrier to you, so is it that you feel, you mentioned insecure, you feel insecure because these things feel out of your control. So there, there feels like almost a sort of a vulnerable side there. Of, I could work really, really hard and still not make it because I don't have control over these things. . But there also sounds like there's an element of I could probably make these connections, but I shouldn't have to. I disagree with this as a notion.
Ruth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vikki: And I'm just wondering which of the...
Ruth: it's a bit of both. It just feels like such a struggle that you need someone to recognize you. I think it's a bit excruciating for me because it feels so unfair and I have a difficult relationship with justice, I have to admit.
Vikki: Yeah, and this is what's really interesting is there's this sort of double impact it's having here, where on one hand, you're telling yourself that you need this and that you may not be able to do that and that that means you could work really, really hard and still not succeed. So there's that quite vulnerable side, but then there's also this other side of, and I don't actually know that I want to get better at doing these things because part of me feels like I shouldn't have to, and that it's unfair that this is how it works, and those sorts of things. And I think it's really understandable that the two of those things co exist, but I want you to see how having those two things co exist makes it quite hard to know how to move forward for you.
Ruth: Oh yeah, of course.
Vikki: Because on one hand you're telling yourself that you can't succeed unless you do these things...
Ruth: I go through the game, but I don't want to go through the game
Vikki: and you don't want to go through the game.
Ruth: And the worst thing is there's like a third element to that, which makes it even more mentally., ah, noisy., Which is, I'm very good at social, at socially, you know, developing connections.
Vikki: I could be really good at this.
Ruth: I could be at that 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm very extroverted. Um, I'm very chatty. I am quite easygoing with people that I don't know from like like, I, I, I'm the kind of people that makes friends in public transportation.
Ruth: So I see that I can make those things and I, if I wanted to, I could kind of make my way into those social arenas that seem a bit challenging because I do believe I could. It's just that it doesn't feel. I don't know. Authentic for one, and honorable for two.
Ruth: . Like, so, it's those things that I could, I just don't want to because I don't think it's fair. So that's, that's my mental struggle.
Vikki: So there's obviously different sides to this. And people listening might not have this specific experience of having these conflicting thoughts about the need for connections and things.
Vikki: But sometimes people have these conflicting thoughts about how hard you should work, for example. That, um, you know, I need to work harder than I am in order to succeed, but I'm not willing to work harder than I am, or I can't work harder than I can, depending on my circumstances or my health or whatever it is.
Vikki: So for everyone listening, translate this. If you don't have the same thoughts and beliefs that Ruth has around connections, translate it out to something where you, on one hand, think that you have to do something to succeed, but on the other hand, feel like you're not willing or able to do that kind of conflict that you have.
Ruth: Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a conflict of fairness in a way of like how you think things are and how you feel they should be to any extent.
Vikki: Absolutely. So what we're going to think about before we even start thinking about what we're going to do or anything, what I want to ask first is what is the consequence for you of thinking these thoughts. Why is it even a problem that you're thinking these thoughts?
Ruth: I think it gets you down because you're thinking, like, you have to, you know, making a thesis, like writing a thesis or working in any sort of PhD process, it's hard. It's hard work, you have to be mentally in the game, because it's so easy to get sidetracked to get distracted by life or anything else, and if on top of that, you have something, some voice in the back of your head saying, Yeah, but as hard as you were, you're not going to make it. Because they speak like that. That's always the voice. Always, like, you know, whispering evilly, um, even when it is, when it is our voice. So it's, it's very hard to, you know, get the strength to just sit on your desk and just work through all the materials you're just working with and, you know, the data and everything when you're thinking, what's the point?
Vikki: Let's model it out. So I know that you've listened to a few of my podcasts which is brilliant. Um, have you listened to any of the ones about the self coaching model?
Ruth: Oh, no, I think I skipped that.
Vikki: Perfect. That's even better because I was going to put it in for the listeners anyway. So those of you who are watching this.
Vikki: On YouTube, we'll see, I pulled up my whiteboard. If you're listening on podcast, don't worry. I'm going to talk you through it anyway, but you illustrated a beautiful self coaching model without even realizing it and what you were saying. That's why I want to pull it out so that we can then use it as a structure to move forward.
Vikki: So the self coaching model suggests that there are circumstances, which are the factual truths of a situation. You are a PhD student. There we go. Yep. That is a factual truth. That's a fact. You could show me evidence that PhD student. It's a factual truth.
Vikki: Um, then we have thoughts, which is the cognitive story that runs in our head. And tell me the thought, just so you have the
Vikki: thought, um, you can work hard, um, but you have to have connections to succeed. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But you need connections. Yeah. But you have to have connections.
Vikki: Connections. Okay. And then the next part of the self coaching model is feelings. And the purpose of this model is for us to really straighten out what we're thinking, how it makes us feel, what actions we then take, and what the consequences of those are. And the main purpose is understanding. So we're not going to judge ourselves for these thoughts, we're not going to, like, criticise ourselves, but we're going to see where things come from and use it to help us understand ourselves a bit better.
Vikki: All right. So when you think you can work hard But you have to have connections to succeed. What emotion do you feel?
Ruth: Oh, you feel discouragement.
Vikki: Discouragement. Amazing. Okay, so I'm going to put that on the feeling line here. Now, actions. When you're feeling discouraged, what actions do you take? So this is not to make the discourage I cheer myself up and get on.
Vikki: I don't do that. When you're in the midst of discouragement, tell me what actions you take.
Ruth: I, I try to, well, first of all I try to distract myself from it because Like, I, I can, at this point, um, I am very introspective and I know, cause I spend lots of hours with myself, so, I know we talk a lot. Um, so I, I recognize when I'm entering that kind of like pit, dark pit of this is not going anywhere.
Ruth: So, I would play some music and I would go through something like, okay, let's sit and...
Vikki: these are things that you're doing. I'm going to pause you, cause these are things that you're doing because you recognize the discouragement. Yeah, because I recognize, yeah. I want you to stay in discourage. So, one of the things you said, that when you're discouraged, you get introspective.
Vikki: And you start spinning thoughts. What else do you do?
Ruth: I tend to do things with my hands, like handcrafts, things like that, or that keep my, my, you know, my attention going somewhere that feels productive.
Vikki: Okay. What else do you do when you're in the midst of discouragement? Not to make it feel better, but when you're like acting out discouragement.
Ruth: Oh, clean. Clean.
Vikki: Perfect.
Ruth: I clean a lot. Yeah.
Vikki: Really common. What are the things that you don't do that you could be doing or that you would prefer to be doing.
Ruth: Um, I try to, that's one of those things that I try to correct myself to do, but it doesn't always work, which is work.
Vikki: Okay, so when you're in the midst of this arrangement, you don't do some work.
Ruth: Yeah, it's just do the kind of, it's very challenging for me to find, because I could sit on my laptop and just, you know, the distracting thoughts are so In and out that it's very hard for me to concentrate so I can try and you know, I'll do something that doesn't take too much out of me.
Ruth: I'll just read one paper and it just takes forever.
Vikki: So you do easier tasks. Do you, when you're feeling discouraged, do you make connections in your field?
Ruth: Um. Well, it's a bit hard for me to, well, I, sometimes I try to just go online and look for someone new or just drop a comment, but like I try to, to, um, say sometimes you get like in a revenge mood of, yes, I'm going to make this happen.
Ruth: So you just go for like the opposite action. Yeah. It's like entirely changing. So it's like, yeah.
Vikki: And that's brilliant. And what you're really illustrating for everybody listening, what Ruth's really illustrating here is how we have multiple models running at any one. Oh, yeah. And that's what can be really complicated is one of the things that's really nice about using these models is it helps us straighten out.
Vikki: So when you're kind of going, right, I'm going to find some people that's not coming from discouragement, that's coming from determination or something.
Ruth: Yeah, for example, but yeah, discouragement to me, it's a bit more. You know, immobilizing. Yeah, it's very hard. So I tend to go for. Yeah. So what I normally go is for something practical that has a like a productivity thing, kind of, you know, clean.
Ruth: So things that I can make in the moment, which, um. You know, um, effect I can see straight away, because it kind of gets me out of that discouragement.
Vikki: It is something that we call buffering. Okay. So it is a, any task that prevents you or helps you not feel the emotion that you're not liking at the moment.
Vikki: So if you don't like feeling discouraged, then we often, we clean. Uh, we scroll on social media, we eat, we watch Netflix. Everyone has their different things they go to for different people. Um, but it's usually something that takes your mind away from the thought feeling combo that you weren't enjoying. And it's rarely something that's actually productive. Some people spin into Tiny productive tasks, so they sort their references or something like that, but they avoid the big difficult things. So That sort of buffering procrastination when you're feeling a negative emotion is really, really normal.
Ruth: Yeah. I think that comes with a PhD.
Vikki: Yes, absolutely. And this is why we need to learn this stuff, because we can manage this very differently if we understand it. So I'm going to take you through the model, especially for people that are listening rather than watching, and then we'll think about the result line.
Vikki: So in the circumstance, we've just got, you are a PhD student, um, and you're writing or something like that. Your thought is you can work hard, but you have to have connections. When you think that you feel discouraged, when you feel discouraged, you distract yourself, you get introspective, you might listen to music, like do handcrafts and things, you clean, you don't sit and work, you tend to do easier tasks and you don't go out and make connections.
Vikki: Now, the result is always the outcome of our actions, but it usually also relates back to the thoughts we're having. Okay. And this is going to sound slightly brutal, but go with me because we're doing this in a non critical way.
Vikki: All right. All right. The result I see is that you don't work hard in this mode when you're feeling discouraged.
Vikki: Yeah. You don't work hard and you don't make connections. This thought that even if I work hard I won't succeed if I don't have connections.
Ruth: And then I don't do either.
Vikki: And an action set that makes it really hard to work hard, and makes it really hard to make connections to.
Ruth: No, no, no, I completely agree.
Vikki: Do you have your reflections on that?
Ruth: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with that. And that's why the more I realize these type of patterns, the more I try to, um, sometimes if I, if I'm In a mental space where I can actually stop this from like spinning too bad into procrastination. Um, I can at least force myself to sit down and just work something, even if it's just small, because it would make it progress.
Ruth: And at the end of the day, I have done something if it's not, even if it's not, you know, I finished this chapter is I wrote another paragraph. So that's another paragraph out. Um, but of course. Life takes you places and sometimes it just, it's just really hard to get out of those, um, of those.
Vikki: This is so good. So what you are doing, which is absolutely brilliant. You are using one technique that you can use here, which is called interrupting the model. And that is that you still think you can work hard, but you have to have connections. You still feel discouraged. But through sort of willpower and determination, you're kind of cutting off this connection with feeling discouraged and not working.
Vikki: So you are getting yourself one way or another to still work even though you feel discouraged. And that is absolutely a tactic that you can take. And particularly if the thought feeling combination feels really fixed for you, and something that is very uppermost in your mind, then sometimes it can be the best tactic.
Vikki: So one of the ones where I often recommend interrupting the model is where people think that something's going to be difficult or boring. Uh, if you can get yourself to a place where you're like, yeah, it's difficult. I'm still going to do it. Or yeah, it's boring. I'm still going to do it.
Vikki: You can kind of interrupt the model and be like, yeah, I'm willing to do something that's boring. I can do something that's difficult. What I would say with this one is that sounds like something that you can battle through to some extent, but it doesn't sound like a fun way of getting your work done.
Vikki: I'm gonna write my PhD while feeling discouraged.
Ruth: I, I have to say that it's not something that I, I don't know if allow is the word, but it's not something I try to focus myself. Um on like that that discouragement it is there like that thought process that you that we walk through It is there and sometimes it comes up as in well, this may happen and you may face this though I try to Kind of be like, okay Now the task is finishing this chapter and we're going to finish this chapter and if it goes right It will go great.
Ruth: And if it doesn't, you know have the impact that you wanted to um Well, tough luck. What can you do? So, your work's still the same, it's just getting it out. So, I try to
Vikki: And what you're doing here is you're illustrating a different technique. So this is great, you're working your way through these different techniques. And another technique is recognizing that just because I think this thought, and I do actually believe it's true, I don't have to spend lots of time thinking it because when we see a model like this, we can recognize that spending lots of time thinking, I can work really hard, but you have to have connections to succeed doesn't lead anywhere good.
Ruth: No, no, it doesn't, it doesn't get you anywhere.
Vikki: So you are, what you're doing there is you're sort of trying to squash that thought away. Yeah. And that recognises really well that thinking it isn't helping you. Yeah. But again, squashing it away is quite difficult because thoughts you squash away tend to pop back up again.
Ruth: Yeah. It is. So, I try to, like, Yeah. Yeah. You know, work through it and just, you know, every time that I get that notion, it's frustration and it's, it's angers. Cause you know, that's what battles with a discouragement is the anger that sometimes you're going to feel that you may feel that, and, and it's going to feel unfair and you, you may not be able to do anything about it, um, in this situation, once you face it, but at the same time, What for once you're not facing the situation yet, so it may not happen. I mean, yeah, it might be true, maybe not. Is it what, is it working? Is it getting me anywhere?
Vikki: So this is brilliant. You're sort of finding all these different strategies that...
Ruth: I trick myself into it.
Vikki: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what, what works, what I think works with these things is to try and find strategies that actually feel okay when you do them too. So there were two things that came out while you were talking that I was thinking.
Vikki: One is whether there are alternative thoughts. That you might want to choose instead. So sometimes, especially when we feel like there's a thought that is really true, but we recognize it doesn't help us to think it lots, it can be useful to pick another thought that we also think is true, by the way.
Vikki: Okay. So we're not going to pick. It's a meritocracy, and as long as I work hard, I'll be fine. We're not going to pick that, because you don't believe that.
Ruth: Because you don't believe it, so yeah.
Vikki: So we're never going to pick a, I can do anything I want. You know, I'm not in the manifesting world we're going to pick a thought, that you believe is true.
Vikki: Okay, but I did want to flag one thing before we do that, which I think is interesting, which is, why do you think, at the moment, when you're trying to write your thesis, Why do you think your brain is offering you these thoughts?
Ruth: Um, the negative ones, you mean? Oh, because I'm at the final stage.
Ruth: Because I'm at the final stage and I see the end date approaching. . So, getting out in the real world and being, you know, a doctor. If you want, it's getting more real
Vikki: what is your brain protecting you from?
Vikki: Because I don't, ,by the way, just to put out there, I'm not a big fan of this notion of self sabotage and things like that. I think most of the time, the thoughts we have, our brain is on some level trying to protect us.
Ruth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I think, I think it's scary because it's the end of, uh. of a part of your life, like that you more or less have a notion of how it works, even as, um, you know, confusing as a PhD is, it is a PhD and once it finishes something new starts and new means you have to be a student again of whatever, you know.
Ruth: Not a real student, I think, literally, but you have to learn how to make your way in the world from a different part of it, which is being a doctor and just, you know, trying to find a work related to that and all those things. And, of course, it is a bit, it's a bit daunting. It's, it's new. It's challenging.
Ruth: And it is a bit, sometimes I feel like my brain is like, well, we can take our time. We don't need to rush through things. And I say this because, um, when I started doing the PhD and I kind of pitched, I kind of pitched an idea for the research and I didn't actually go through them. Natural progress of like, you finish a master's degree and then you get contacted by someone doing research and they try to interest you in that and then you join a group. No, I finished a master's degree. I had nothing to do with what I was doing in the PhD and I got an idea for research and I contacted a doctor that was teaching in my university and I was like, Hey, I have this idea. Would you like to tutor me in this in this thesis?
Ruth: Because I think I'm going to write this and I would really like for you to be on board with this because I really like how you do things. And I think we have this topic in common.
Vikki: I'm going to interrupt. Sorry. Just as an interesting notice, you created a connection in order to allow yourself to do your PhD.
Ruth: Yeah, I actually, well, I not been not really created, but kind of rescued because they were a teacher of mine from my university years, but that was like 15 years before prior to that, because I'm, I'm 35 years old, so I, I went back to, yeah, I, I looked them up.
Ruth: I was, I, I really liked the way they worked when I was a student and, and I thought, you know, they're doing this field, which is very related to the one that I want to do. And I know that we have a great connection as human beings because we worked before and it was very you know, peaceful and it was nice.
Ruth: So I contacted them and they were like, super easily on board. Yeah, I kind of, now that you mention that, yeah, it makes me,
Vikki: it makes me think that this notion that this is something that's going to be really hard for you and that's not fair.
Ruth: That's why I mentioned that I don't think I find it challenging because I am very upfront with people and I don't, I don't mind going like after someone in a way because I want to work with you and it's exciting for me. I just don't like the notion of it may be a requisite because it feels like using people, um, even if you're using each other, you know .
Vikki: Are you using your supervisor?
Ruth: I don't think so. I think we're kind of working together. That's how I like to see it. Um, but I, I don't know, I have this battle with the concept of people using people, um, that I struggle a lot with, especially in today's world because I don't like it.
Vikki: , let's go back. So we, so there's a possibility that, um, Your brain is trying to protect you from the uncertainty and the fear and things that, you know, the dauntingness, I think your words were, of, um, what's to come.
Vikki: Afterwards, yeah. I wonder whether it's also protecting you a little bit from what you need to do at the moment.
Ruth: Maybe, um, in the sense that I don't want to do it, do you think, or
Vikki: just in the sense. It feels a little bit to me, and a lot of our brains do this, it feels a little bit to me like it's a lot easier to spend time worrying about whether if I don't have connections I'll ever manage to succeed than it is to sit down and do the difficult work of writing your thesis.
Ruth: It could be. It could easily be because, um, well, it is, it is funny because it is easier in a way and it's so painful in the other hand.
Vikki: Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying it's a great strategy on our brains part, but I think sometimes when we're getting ourselves sort of worked up about something that isn't actually a problem right now.
Vikki: It can sometimes be a distraction from the fact that if we're not spending time worrying about that, we've actually got to sit down and write this thesis. And that's It's quite, you know, it's challenging and it takes cognitive effort and all of these things. And sometimes, um, our brains allow themselves to spiral on other stuff.
Ruth: Yeah, could be, could easily be. I mean, that's the, actually, it kind of pops very at random. You know, someone in a casual conversation mentioned something and you're like, here it comes again.
Ruth: Um, so as much as I can, um, at a conscious level, at least, because that's the thing, the unconscious, uh, I try very, very actively to take myself away from spaces that can be, that can lead me to those thoughts. But sometimes it happens. So I'm not entirely sure.
Vikki: It will be interesting to notice. I want you to just keep an eye. So it sounds like it gets triggered sometimes in specific circumstances, where somebody talks about, um, Either having an opportunity or not having an opportunity and things like that. I want you to spend a little bit of time noticing when else it pops up. Okay. Because I will take a pretty strong stab that it will come up when you're finding something difficult.
Ruth: Oh, I could look that up, definitely. I could look that up.
Vikki: It just feels, it's something I've seen with clients in the past, and I don't want to put thoughts in the back, so that's why I want you to observe it over the next week or two. Um, one of the things I've seen with clients in the past is that, and I see it in myself, I get to a bit of writing where I'm like, I don't know what to write now.
Vikki: And that's when it comes light. And then it comes with thought. Oh, there's just no point even doing this. No one's ever going to read it or whatever. Those thoughts come in and then it's like, oh, I don't need to do the hard thing because Yeah, because it's not going to get me anywhere anyway. It's not going to get me anywhere anyway and it's almost to remove you from that difficulty.
Ruth: Yeah. Okay, yeah, I'll definitely keep an eye on that because I'm not entirely sure if that may be the case. It can very easily be the case because, you know, hard work is, is sometimes it's just your brain just escaping, looking for a way to escape the hard work. And now all that's left is the hard work.
Vikki: So I actually want you to think about in advance now.
Vikki: Yeah. is what thought could be a go to thought for you, that you already believe, like I mentioned, that when you find that this pops up, how do you respond to yourself? So I'm a big fan of having little dialogues with ourselves and trying to nurture a very kind of calm and fair sort of response voice. So we don't say, shut up saying that, it doesn't help us anyway, go away.
Vikki: We don't say that to ourselves. But when we, if we know that our brain has a tendency to offer up thoughts that don't always help us, it can be really useful. So I do it with like exercise. So thought will come up. I don't feel like going to the gym or whatever. And my response is always, I try and do anyway, is That's okay. You don't need to feel like it, but we're going. Yeah. And that's like not very parental force . Don't be so lazy. You know? Get out. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. It's like, that's okay. You don't need to feel like it. But we are going, and I've kind of preloaded that thought. Does it work perfectly every time? Do I do everything myself?
Vikki: No, obviously, no, it won't. It won't work every single time. But yeah, it really helps to have. something that you're sort of like, if I think this, then I'll think that. So what might be a thought for you that feels true, that would help you to feel an emotion that might help you to actually do the work and get on and do the things you want to achieve?
Ruth: I think that in my case, um, because sometimes I would get into a very deep, dark, that noisy voice being like, You don't have to, um, you don't do this because it's not going to get you anywhere and you're not going to finish and it sounds very high pitched and very, very annoying. Um, and then I try, then there's another voice that starts quietly, but then it takes over, which is like, well, you've done it in the past.
Ruth: You've made the connection, you talk to people, you made it happen. It may happen again.
Vikki: And how has that worked for you. Is that a message that has helped you? Is it a message you want to tweak?
Ruth: Um, I think that using my own past as a proof that if I have done it in the past, I can make it again. It kind of makes me believe it because I am the protagonist. It's not, I'm using, you know, someone's experience of, you know, look at that person very far away in the past that managed to do that very amazing thing. It takes so much willpower to believe something that's conflicting with what you're seeing straight away. But to use some example from your past, and if you did it in the past, you can do it again. So I think that using my own experience as a way to boost my, my mood, it kind of works for me.
Vikki: Perfect. I love that. I'm gonna add in a contradict. How though, do you then reconcile that thought with the bits of your brain that believes you shouldn't have to it?
Ruth: Oh, they're always arguing with each other. .
Vikki: Yeah. That's why I, we need a thought I think that addresses both bits, because I think this is part of the challenge, and this happens so often, is that your go to thought to make the, you're not going to succeed if you don't have connections, bit of your brain feel better, then pisses off the bit of your brain that thinks you shouldn't have to, this is an unfair way, unfair system, this You know, uni shouldn't work like this.
Vikki: So I wonder what thought there could be that placates both parts of this.
Ruth: But um, the thing is, where I go, well, you've done it in the past. I kind of address both in the, well, not entirely both, but in a sense that, well, you, you have succeeded in the past without connections, so you may not need them. And you have made connections in the past and not out of ill motives. You've made it because you wanted to or because they just grew naturally, so don't, you know, try to not to fall on the, on the past, on the pattern of me making connections means I'm trying to use someone. Sometimes you make connections because you like them or because it worked for both of you.
Ruth: And, and it was just, you know, very collaborative, um, two people in the same field working
Ruth: So sometimes I try to not be so cynical about those things by, by telling myself, you have connections, you've made connections in the past, you're not, you know a mean person to, to have connections or to look for connections.
Ruth: Sometimes you just really want to share your experience with work because it, it kind of gets a load out of your head. Like the same thing we're doing here, just discussing this, it's just very helpful to, you know, get it out um, and to share it with some other people that can have the same experience as you and be like, yeah, that happens to me too.
Ruth: So, so it's kind of a way of saying. And you've done this in the past, you didn't do it for the wrong reasons. So you don't have to do it for the wrong reasons in the future. Yeah. And that may be enough. So just, you know, try not to go ahead.
Vikki: I love that. And the sentence that sort of popped into my head while you were describing all that was something around, I can succeed by making ethical connections.
Ruth: Yeah, I do have, and I've always had a pretty strong set of morals to that regard. So, that's something that's pretty important for me to feel that I'm working ethically to the best extent of, you know, my living. So, um, that's, that's great.
Vikki: You're capable of doing that.
Ruth: And I think I am. Yeah.
Vikki: I, I am capable of making connections ethically. In line with my moral beliefs. . That will enable me to succeed.
Ruth: Because that's probably where I would draw the line for myself. If my success means I have to be unethical about my methods, then I'm not going to be successful. Yeah. That's That's where I draw the line for myself. It may work for someone else or at a certain point, but that's my moral compass and I follow it. And I've been following it for some time. So sometimes it's even when I get in the very dark mental space of, you know, unique connections and see how these people made it work. Some part of myself would be like, yeah, but you would have never done that because it's not in your nature. So why are you even arguing with yourself?
Vikki: I love that. Those thoughts are already there. So if we can just get to a stage where those are just a little bit more accessible. So towards the beginning of starting to think, I need connections to succeed.
Vikki: You can think, okay, but I know how to make connections. And I know how to make connections that are in line with my moral beliefs. Yeah. That's okay. And in future, I can use my connections for good. That's the other thing. People often, when they're worrying about networking and they're worrying about making connections and whether it's ethical or whether it's smarmy or whatever, forget that , even as a senior PhD student, we're in a position to make connections that help other people, that do it because it's helpful to other people. Um, and so I'm just wondering whether if you can have that thought, you know, sometimes some clients put them on post it notes and things like that.
Ruth: I think, I think, yeah, I'm all around my office. Yeah, I do it a lot because sometimes, um, just seeing in front of my face, it's like, oh yeah, right.
Ruth: You're right. Um, And I know I posted that for myself. So it's like, yeah, okay, just, you know, keep that in mind. Um, and I actually, this thought process walked through with you at the moment. I didn't realize that that was the issue for me. Um, so at some level I knew, because, you know, I, um, I discuss morals a lot because I like philosophical talk a lot.
Ruth: So that comes up in very, very social situations very often. Um, But I realized that probably that's my issue with the whole thing. It's the feeling unethical about things.
Vikki: And you know how to do it without that. And you know where your boundaries are and you accept that if I need to do this, then I won't succeed in that way, but I'll succeed in this way because I know how to make ethical connections.
Ruth: Yeah. Yep. That's it. Problem solved.
Vikki: I would add to that for everybody. So anybody who's ever spent time with. like a child or something that we can give them logical responses, but they do also want to feel listened to. So the, the final thing that I would add is have a thought like that that's kind of your go to pre planned. If I hear myself saying these things, I will remember that, but then ask yourself. Are you struggling with something right now? Because if we think there's a possibility that these things come up at a time when you're worrying about the future, or at a time when you're needing to do something difficult in your thesis.
Ruth: Yeah, you're a bit anxious about it.
Vikki: And these actions, then we can reassure that symptom. We can say, no, no, it's okay. We've thought about this. We can make that, that's all that's that's okay, that's fine. But what's, what's, what's wrong with you? What's actually wrong, hun? And then you can be like, you know what?
Vikki: I'm just getting freaked out about what happens after my PhD. Or you know what? I'm finding this bit of writing really tough. Be like, okay, let's, let's think about that. And then let's go for that. How can I support you in that? Because this is a distraction. Because we have dealt with that. We know how to do that. What's really the problem here?
Ruth: I like that. I like that a lot.
Vikki: Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Ruth. I really appreciate you coming on. I hope that was useful. Perfect. So everybody listening, I hope that was useful for you too. I think lots of people struggle with notions of networking and whether they're good at it and whether it's ethical and those sorts of things.
Vikki: So I think in that situation, this will have been super relevant. But as I say, also translate it out to anything else that's your kind of go to worry. Look, you can go back, listen to this again and watch the YouTube and kind of go through that process. if you want to hear more about the self catering model, I do have a full podcast explaining how to do that for maybe a month or so ago, so go back like four or five
Vikki: episodes which will take, help you to take yourself through the stuff that I've done with Ruth. We use it as a structure in coaching when I'm actually coaching somebody else, but it's designed to be able to use it yourself. So when you feel yourself getting in a bit of a knot and you don't have access, coaching, then you have that opportunity too. So thank you so much, Ruth, for coming on.
Ruth: Thank you.
Vikki: And thank you everyone for listening.